The border they should be worried about is the Russia-Ukraine border. While the southern border of the US is a great political stunt, there is no threat to democracy there. I live in AZ; I can tell you from first hand observation, our way of life is not threatened by poor Venezuelans or Hondurans coming to the US to find a safe, decent place to live. A fortiori, the entire SW has been built with cheap immigrant labor. There isn't a single Hispanic panhandler on the streets of Phoenix (at least I've never met one). They are industrious, hard working and family oriented.
To conflate supporting Ukraine with closing our border can only be justified in the minds of conspiracy theorists. I think the Senators know that the dysfunction caucus in the House needs some cover for their expected tantrum before they shut government down.
The is a great line: "The border they should be worried about is the Russia-Ukraine border." I'm going to steal it. I just did a radio interview this morning and I wish I had it then. Thanks, Thomas!
It's incredible to me that these people are so self-serving that they cannot grasp not only the long term strategic implications of such decisions but fail to grasp the human aspects. 10's of thousands of people just like them, with families just like theirs, living in cities and towns just like theirs have already suffered and will continue to suffer under the Russian invasion. How do they rationalize this? Shame.
Dec 7, 2023·edited Dec 7, 2023Liked by Joe Cirincione
Thank you.
Republicans are embarked on a fiendish strategy that might succeed. They are demanding to dictate immigration policy entirely on their terms, and failing that, blame the UKR failures on democrats for resisting "border security." IN reality, Dems have no problem with money for border security - that's the easy part. The GOP doesn't actually need to win the argument, they just need to muddy the waters enough to deflect blame for the coming tragedy.
It all looks very dark for UKR today. The hope I hold on to is that sometimes people come to their senses unexpectedly. The first UKR battlefield setback could send a shiver through our sleepy nation. There may be a way forward that emerges that is not evident now.
BTW, I started to feel flickers of optimism today. The safest path for GOP is to extract concessions on immigration policy and then fund Ukraine to an extent that prevents embarrassing setbacks. Their goal is to rejigger the rules so that Trump can legally do mass deportations if he wins in 2024, but Dems see through this and won't give that much. Sen. Murphy made comment to this effect.
THe peril remains. I did hear one congressional reporter suggest that a deal, or at least proposal could yet form in the Senate next week. My gut is telling me we will get through this terrible period. There are still a lot of GOP Senators who read Putin's global role correctly.
Joe, I would be interested in your analysis of what's happening on the financial war front, with sanctions etc. All the media coverage seems to be on the military situation. As you surely know, the combined GDP of Ukraine's allies is 20 to 30 times that of Russia. A financial war sounds like a fight we should be able to win.
What about something like the following:
1) Ukrainian forces disengage the Russians, and withdraw in to the free parts of Ukraine.
2) Willing Western nations flood troops in to the free parts of Ukraine to ensure no Russian breakthrough can threaten it. NATO membership for Ukraine not necessary at this time.
3) The focus shifts to bankrupting Russia. When some future Russian government seeks a way to escape crippling sanctions, the price tag is the removal of Russian troops from Ukraine.
Putin can declare victory, but has no where further he can go. We shouldn't attack Russia, or occupied Ukraine, but any Russian troops which try to enter free Ukraine should be killed to the last man by overwhelming Western power.
Defend free Ukraine now in a manner which can't be challenged, and play the long game for occupied Ukraine.
A financial war seems much more sustainable than a shooting war. What are the primary obstacles here?
you should really look up the definition of words before using them. You clearly have no clue what the word "treason" means, otherwise you wouldn't be using it so loosely
so do you think Liz Cheney is guilty of treason? Mitt Romney, Adam Kinzinger too? Cause they're Republicans, and therefore, by your logic, guilty of treason
You really need to reconsider that decision not to take the remedial class in reading comprehension. Of course not. The Trumpers are the traitors. Can you add 2+2 and get 4 every time? You're one of the most mendacious morons I've run across on Substack.
classy insult from someone who apparently can't remember what he said 5 hrs ago. You never specified "MAGA", or "Trumpsters" or anything to delineate a subset of the R party. You accused the Republican party as a whole of T R E A S O N. Yes, that includes Chenney, Romney, Kinzinger, etc. That's a fact. Hurl your childish name calling at me all you want, it doesn't change what you said. Less than 1% of the R party are treasonous. The other 99% just want to earn a decent living, feed their families, and not be called domestic terrorists. I don't think that's too much to ask
The border they should be worried about is the Russia-Ukraine border. While the southern border of the US is a great political stunt, there is no threat to democracy there. I live in AZ; I can tell you from first hand observation, our way of life is not threatened by poor Venezuelans or Hondurans coming to the US to find a safe, decent place to live. A fortiori, the entire SW has been built with cheap immigrant labor. There isn't a single Hispanic panhandler on the streets of Phoenix (at least I've never met one). They are industrious, hard working and family oriented.
To conflate supporting Ukraine with closing our border can only be justified in the minds of conspiracy theorists. I think the Senators know that the dysfunction caucus in the House needs some cover for their expected tantrum before they shut government down.
The is a great line: "The border they should be worried about is the Russia-Ukraine border." I'm going to steal it. I just did a radio interview this morning and I wish I had it then. Thanks, Thomas!
It's incredible to me that these people are so self-serving that they cannot grasp not only the long term strategic implications of such decisions but fail to grasp the human aspects. 10's of thousands of people just like them, with families just like theirs, living in cities and towns just like theirs have already suffered and will continue to suffer under the Russian invasion. How do they rationalize this? Shame.
Thank you.
Republicans are embarked on a fiendish strategy that might succeed. They are demanding to dictate immigration policy entirely on their terms, and failing that, blame the UKR failures on democrats for resisting "border security." IN reality, Dems have no problem with money for border security - that's the easy part. The GOP doesn't actually need to win the argument, they just need to muddy the waters enough to deflect blame for the coming tragedy.
It all looks very dark for UKR today. The hope I hold on to is that sometimes people come to their senses unexpectedly. The first UKR battlefield setback could send a shiver through our sleepy nation. There may be a way forward that emerges that is not evident now.
Thank you. I agree. The outlook for Ukraine got considerably darker because of the actions in Washington on Wednesday.
BTW, I started to feel flickers of optimism today. The safest path for GOP is to extract concessions on immigration policy and then fund Ukraine to an extent that prevents embarrassing setbacks. Their goal is to rejigger the rules so that Trump can legally do mass deportations if he wins in 2024, but Dems see through this and won't give that much. Sen. Murphy made comment to this effect.
THe peril remains. I did hear one congressional reporter suggest that a deal, or at least proposal could yet form in the Senate next week. My gut is telling me we will get through this terrible period. There are still a lot of GOP Senators who read Putin's global role correctly.
Joe, I would be interested in your analysis of what's happening on the financial war front, with sanctions etc. All the media coverage seems to be on the military situation. As you surely know, the combined GDP of Ukraine's allies is 20 to 30 times that of Russia. A financial war sounds like a fight we should be able to win.
What about something like the following:
1) Ukrainian forces disengage the Russians, and withdraw in to the free parts of Ukraine.
2) Willing Western nations flood troops in to the free parts of Ukraine to ensure no Russian breakthrough can threaten it. NATO membership for Ukraine not necessary at this time.
3) The focus shifts to bankrupting Russia. When some future Russian government seeks a way to escape crippling sanctions, the price tag is the removal of Russian troops from Ukraine.
Putin can declare victory, but has no where further he can go. We shouldn't attack Russia, or occupied Ukraine, but any Russian troops which try to enter free Ukraine should be killed to the last man by overwhelming Western power.
Defend free Ukraine now in a manner which can't be challenged, and play the long game for occupied Ukraine.
A financial war seems much more sustainable than a shooting war. What are the primary obstacles here?
They just did.
Time to change the name of the Republican Party to the Treason Party. It's what they've been since 2016, if not long before that.
you should really look up the definition of words before using them. You clearly have no clue what the word "treason" means, otherwise you wouldn't be using it so loosely
"Declare war on America" - what do you think telling people you'll be a dictator and tear up the Consitution is, you idiot?
so do you think Liz Cheney is guilty of treason? Mitt Romney, Adam Kinzinger too? Cause they're Republicans, and therefore, by your logic, guilty of treason
You really need to reconsider that decision not to take the remedial class in reading comprehension. Of course not. The Trumpers are the traitors. Can you add 2+2 and get 4 every time? You're one of the most mendacious morons I've run across on Substack.
classy insult from someone who apparently can't remember what he said 5 hrs ago. You never specified "MAGA", or "Trumpsters" or anything to delineate a subset of the R party. You accused the Republican party as a whole of T R E A S O N. Yes, that includes Chenney, Romney, Kinzinger, etc. That's a fact. Hurl your childish name calling at me all you want, it doesn't change what you said. Less than 1% of the R party are treasonous. The other 99% just want to earn a decent living, feed their families, and not be called domestic terrorists. I don't think that's too much to ask